Extremist Nonsense

[finncullen]

Finn tries to be a moderate fellow but occasionally he comes across things that make his blood boil.  Incredibly high temperatures for instance, but those are easily  avoided.

On a more metaphorical level take a look at some of these outrageous comments from Extremist Muslim Fanatics and ask yourself how they can get away with spouting this tripe in a supposedly rational world:

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Islam... That's war. And this is war."

"With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, Allah does not hear the prayer of a Jew."

"Sodomy is a graver sin than murder. – Unless there is life there can be no murder."

"Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports sodomites is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death."

"We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There's a lot of talk about respecting other faiths. But the bottom line is somebody's values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe."

"The long-term goal of Muslims in politics should be to gain exclusive control ..Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of Allah ..must be denied citizenship."

"We are to make Muslims of anybody that gets in our way."

"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Allah. And therefore no nation has the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."

"I would like to outlaw contraception...contraception is disgusting – people using each other for pleasure."

"in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals."

"Raising your children under ..any other principles than true Islam is child abuse."

 

Well no.

I think you all know me, you will forgive the irony, well enough to guess that all is not as it seems.  The above quotations are all from American Christian politicians or public figures with the identifying tags of nation and religion changed, but everything else left intact.

This bizarre species of which we are condemned to be a part seems insolubly opposed to rising above the tribal instinct for In-Group loyalty and Out-Group hostility and seem to be unable to see any contradiction between their own claims for enlightenment and the fact that really... if you remove the labels and mix the ideas up.. they are all pretty similar.

This is a bleak but hardly innovative observation, I just wanted to share it in a spirit of mischief.
 

Comments

[my_daroga]

I cannot find it now, but last year someone pointed me to a list of facts about candidates Obama and McCain, only the names were reversed. It was something like, "What would you think if... Obama had graduated lowest in his class at the military academy? McCain had edited the Harvard Review?" and went on, highlighting the way we see race as essential to character. It was really interesting.

You're absolutely right. I am ashamed to live in this country sometimes, though there are obviously other things greatly to be admired. But when Bush was going on about Islamic fundamentalism, I could not help but wince at how close to home it hit regarding those religious leaders he consorted with, or at least gave implicit support to. It's utter blindness. And the insular attitude of the conservatives is boggling. It's as if we--no, they, for I'm certain I as an agnostic atheist don't count--are the only people who are people. Their entire convention (I mean the Republican party) had the theme of "us first," essentially, which... even if they believe that, seemed like an appalling message to send an entire world who they knew was watching. I have never understood the need for nationalism, especially in the modern age.

Goodness, you have me ranting, now. I'll stop, but nice exercise, Finn.

[finncullen.livejournal.com]

Oh I don’t think you need to feel particularly ashamed for your country. Every nation has its fair share of imbeciles in high places, with opinions all the more keenly held in direct inverse proportion to the amount of evidence supporting them. My examples were from the US simply because they are more easily available, I am quite sure just as much folly is evident on this side of the water.

Actually it would be quite a relief to hear a British politician issue a strongly worded statement on anything rather than the fatuous bland bile our particular breed of them seem to produce.

[my_daroga]

I think shame is a valuable component of action, though. Not if it's overwhelming one to the point of depression, but goodness, I'd be a much less admirable person I think if I blindly adored everything my leaders did. On the other hand, I'm almost constantly frustrated by being on the losing side of so many battles, and here I am a middle-class white girl, awash in privilege! I can't even imagine what it's like for someone with real difficulties.

The evidence is that the U.S. is the least secular "western" nation, which is why the ire expressed by the religious right boggles me. This is my country, too, you know.

[finncullen.livejournal.com]

I'm more a devotee of cynical anger and sarcasm than shame myself. But I know what you mean, the response should never be apathy, and brava for that.

I'm currently looking for details on an experiment that was done in Israeli schools to determine the level to which in-group loyalty affected ethical choices. Fascinating stuff. If I find it I'll post it soon.

[my_daroga]

I think when I say "shame" I probably actually mean something closer to "cynical anger and sarcasm," at least in practice, as it's more about pronouncing, "I am ASHAMED to live in this country!" than actually wallowing in it--the response is anger, the word perhaps inaccurate.

That is very interesting, and I look forward to seeing it. I should of course mention, though it's probably unnecessary, that naturally I am not at all immune to that phenomenon. We all like to be validated.

[newsboyhat.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's because my head is so full of anthro, but I honestly think I would see those words as appalling no matter which group uttered them.

Your exercise, however, was very interesting, and made me think of how public opinion is constructed by the government, the press, and other external factors with private agendas no doubt taking advantage of the fact that most citizens depend on such resources for information.

[finncullen.livejournal.com]

I quite expected anyone likely to read my journal to find the comments and opinions dreadful regardless of the source (and I'm so glad you did!) - I suppose the fun for me lay in recognising the blindness of the people who made them, and imagining how outraged those very people would be if they heard the same opinions expressed by an out-group.